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"Every day, all day, there's an impediment that has to be cleared. There are people who don't believe what we believe. [...] those who believed what we believed early on at Atlantic Station, Avalon, Colony Square, and now Medley are succeeding, and we're succeeding. And then there are those who didn't believe what we believed, who now do."
We are excited to share the latest episode of The Fort Podcast with Chris Powers and Mark Toro, a true expert in world-class mixed-use developments and founder of Toro Development Company
In this episode, Mark dives into the secret sauce behind iconic communities like Avalon, Colony Square, and Atlantic Station. From transforming struggling properties through hospitality-driven experiences to seamlessly integrating office, retail, multifamily, single-family, and hotel components — the focus is on creating real community.
Key takeaways include:
- Why place-making and “human energy” are just as valuable as the physical real estate.
- The importance of high-quality patio spaces and curated retail that serve the community, not just tenants.
- How integrated management and experience fees unify diverse property uses to maximize value.
- The challenge and opportunity of stacking capital while blending financial, operational, social, and technological integration.
If you’re interested in how next-generation mixed-use communities are reshaping real estate, this episode is a must-listen!
Look for the episode now on Spotify, Apple, and YouTube.
#TheFortPodcast#MixedUseDevelopment#RealEstateInnovation
If you had to guess how many of these areas exist around the country, is it, can you count them on a couple hands? I mean, you said it's the best you've ever seen. I've maybe you have some proprietary method that's using AI or something to scour the country. I would imagine you have a heat map we don't have to talk about. We're not going to give away all the locations. But you said it's not scalable. Are there other locations that meet this threshold or is this really the gold of all golds? Really only not scalable because a my team has chosen not to scale beyond something that we can enjoy and pour our hearts and soul into creating one of one each time. You know, we when when I spun off Toro Development Company from North America and the entire development team came with me. And, and we got together at the early days and said, hey, what do you want to do? I said, well, we want to, we want to make an impact in the communities we serve and we want to create fortress positions. That are unique and they're extremely valuable, a from a social perspective and B from a monetary perspective. And we want to enjoy our lives too. So we we didn't want to put it up. Get on a treadmill you can't take. Maybe you could, I don't know. I've never tried up 35 year old shopping center developer and throw them out there and say go develop. Medley. The the T, the integration and the experience and the hand in glove that goes between finance, multifamily development. Retail, development, office, hotel, all those components, sort of. It's a, it's a fine art. It's, it is, it's, it's surgery with a scalpel, not a machete. So. When I say scale by, I mean we can't do, we're not going to do 10 of these. And I don't think you're going to see so far in my, you know, study of the industry and I'm a student of the industry literally every day to this day. I haven't seen a developer. Scale it. I haven't seen somebody do ten of these. If you look at Federal Realty, who? Did Santana Row 25 years ago? They've done a handful since then. Caruso, same way, trademark, smaller scale, sometimes third party, but relatively active in the space. I haven't seen something not to be, you know, dismissive, but I haven't seen something truly. Impactful from them there's Madison Marquette there's you know there there are a number. But if it take an example the Wharf in DC spectacularly well executed. Urban Dents. Waterfront Community. Will never be replicated it it's. It's not like any of we can find it if we could find another. Community with $200,000 average household incomes and I think I may have the one I'm going to visit in the Midwest next week then a lot of. Things have to A lot of stars have to align. I mean, there's gotta be a perfect storm of community support in some cases, incentives, you know, they're, they're some, sometimes the economics don't work here. There's got to be a distressed property or an infill property that's going to be made available by a seller or user. Not like in the, our case with State Farm, in the case of Avalon, I mean, this was a, this was a site, a vacant site, suburban Greenfield that was developed. What was trying was attempted a major mixed-use. We've all been on it and the developer hit the wall during the during the recession, so. We have to be able to buy the land, right? Cities got to cooperate, retailers have to be on board. A lot of this has to happen all at the same time and it's a really, really heavy lift. Now you what someone that they there's a community when Sorry, there's a project. I wouldn't call it a community up the street from Avalon called Halcyon on 400. And Forsyth County, north Atlanta. And it was first proposed. Someone said to me, aren't you worried about Halcyon completing competing with Avalon? And I said no. And then it was a bit arrogant, but. They said why? I said because it's too ******* hard. But it is just a heavy lift every day, all day. There's an impediment that has to be cleared. There are people who don't believe what we believe. You know, one of the things I'm a big Simon Cynic fan and one of the things that he talks about in his his great. Ted Talk called the Golden Circle, said to the extent that you can work with people who believe what you believe, you'll succeed. And those who believe what we believed early on at Atlantic Station, Avalon Colony Square, now medley. Are are succeeding, and we're succeeding. And then there are those who didn't believe what we believed, who now do. So it it it takes a village. I mean, this is not. Meatball surgery. This is fine surgery.
